EP #11 – Your Fertility Expert Team
[00:00:00] Tanja: Hello and a very warm welcome to today's episode. I'm truly excited and a little bit nervous because this show today is going to present you with the very first guest that I'm having in my show. It's my colleague Sharon Lim and Sharon has been part of our team since 2015. Yes, you heard that correctly. It's 10 years that Sharon and I have been working together.
[00:01:11] Tanja: Now, I'm really looking forward to today because usually Sharon and I would exchange case studies or we would actually conduct a training together or, be at one of the conferences with doctors and giving a presentation or a talk, but we very seldom actually grab a cup of coffee and just sit down and have a simple conversation like this. So, I'm going to really enjoy this because I know that it will be inspiring and there will be so much in this to take away.
[00:01:51] Tanja: So just to give you a little bit of a heads up, Sharon is not just a counselor, but she has so many backgrounds, which are so interesting. She studied medicine in the UK, then she proceeded to work for pharmaceuticals in the US and for Australia. And finally, she then actually transformed her whole career into counselling. I wonder actually why and I will ask her this question because it's always interesting to hear why people are doing such transformative changes in their life.
[00:02:26] Tanja: Sharon is also part of the ASPIRE working committee. She is a member of the Singapore Association of Counsellors (SAC), as well as, the Clinical Supervisors in Singapore as well as in Australia. She has been a supervisor in our team for many years for students who embark on a Master's in Counselling and who need practice hours. And she has been helping with supervising sessions for new additions to our team, as well as actually presenting talks and webinars to audiences, whether it's corporates, during the health months or whether it's corporates getting more in-depth trainings for any topics that are related to mental and emotional health.
[00:03:31] Tanja: So, I'm going to really enjoy this conversation. I have prepared a couple of questions, but it will be also just going with the flow. So, grab a cup of tea or a coffee or some water and let's get started!
[00:03:54] Tanja: Hello! I'm so, so excited today to introduce a very, very dear colleague to you all. Sharon Lim has been working alongside of me for the past 10 years. Can you believe it? Time really flies, isn't it, Sharon?
[00:04:11] Sharon: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:04:11] Sharon: Yeah. 10 years older, Tanja.
[00:04:14] Tanja: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, for everyone that doesn't know Sharon yet, Sharon is part of our team. She is a counsellor in our team, but Sharon has a really, really interesting background before she actually joined our counselling team, she was in various positions around the world. Sharon, I think you worked in almost all the continents except for Africa, didn't you?
[00:04:42] Sharon: I lived in all the continents except South America, Africa, and Australia. But I, you know, did work trips to all of them except Africa. Yeah, that's true.
[00:04:52] Tanja: Yes, amazing. Amazing. The cultural experience that you bring to the table is that amazing, right?
[00:04:59] Sharon: Yeah.
[00:05:00] Tanja: And Sharon will share with you in a short moment, a little bit more about herself. But, just to let you know, Sharon is a counsellor in our team. She works with adults and couples as well as actually teens in all phases of their lives, and she also has a very keen interest in fertility counselling. And also, anything that has to do research - I can't think of anyone else in our team that has such an approach to research like you, Sharon. So, before we dive a little bit more into your background, Sharon, I was just wondering, is there like a one stress buster that you would use, something that could really help you right away?
[00:05:45] Sharon: So, if I'm feeling very stressed, I think for most of us that it's feeling very overwhelmed or at the end of the tether. So, what I consciously try and do is, is take a step back. So, the most important thing is to recognize when you're getting to that point. And then I would choose to take a few deep breaths, just clear my mind, sit somewhere alone and quietly. And then, you know, once I'm a little bit calmer, I would try and break down all the things that are stressing me. So, step by step, kind of break the whole big overwhelming ball of stress into little bits that I can then line up, prioritize, tell myself, “Yes, you need to be really worried about this one.
No, that one is actually less important, less dangerous, less threatening.”
[00:06:40] Sharon: So, that's what I do. It's kind of understanding the emotion that's coming. taking a few deep breaths, sitting somewhere quiet to not be so overpowered by the emotion, and then cognitively trying to figure out where is this coming from, what can I do about it, and just breaking it down into smaller chunks that are more manageable, if that makes sense.
[00:07:02] Tanja: Okay. And, how would you do that when you are in a place that you are maybe not at home, you are outside of your house and anything, do you have any tip on where you could actually do some breathing then for yourself to help you calm down?
[00:07:18] Sharon: So, almost anywhere. I can do it in the car, I can do it in the bathroom. I have done it hanging onto the rail in the MRT and just taking myself to my happy place - I think you would call it. And just shutting out the outside, you know, for five minutes.
[00:07:35] Tanja: Yes. That sounds amazing. Yes. And once you have conditioned probably your mind with all this, techniques, right? Of the breathing and everything and the happy place that you just mentioned, I'm sure that actually your physical response can go quite fast to it in a way that it gives you a positive response very quickly.
[00:07:54] Sharon: Exactly. I mean, I've always believed, and I think now the science is proving this that the body and mind are so interconnected that it's actually very hard, it's almost impossible. Some physiologists would say, it's not even worth asking the question of which comes first, the mind or the body. So, the breathing is an easy thing to do. So, obviously what I'm doing is addressing the body first, and then I find that the mind also then comes down a little bit. I know people might go at it the other way. Having affirmative thoughts, for example, or telling themselves that they're okay.
[00:08:31] Tanja: And I'm sure we'll talk about these tips a little later again.
[00:08:35] Sharon: Yeah.
[00:08:36] Tanja: Exactly. So, but thanks for sharing. I'm always inspired by hearing how others are dealing with stressful situations, which actually happens to all of us, right? So, Sharon, can you tell us a little bit more about your background? Because yours is a really interesting one.
[00:08:54] Sharon: Well, you know, I live in Singapore now. I was born in Singapore. So, I'm a Singaporean deep down, or at least a large part of me is. I'm probably what the government, well, I know I am what the Singapore government calls a senior now, although I hope I'm kind of young at heart, you know. As you alluded to, Tanja, I, do consider myself to be very cross cultural, so I've been brought up and educated in, both the UK and Singapore. I've worked in the UK, Singapore, US, and China, and I've traveled widely for work in the past.
[00:09:30] Sharon: My children are definitely cross cultural kids as well. So, that's who I am, and that's who we are as a family. And I think that permeates every part of our lives, and who we think we are. And obviously as a counsellor, as a therapist, I think that definitely plays into my relationships with my clients as well, whether it's based on understanding or whether it's based on openness to ideas and acceptance of other cultures. So, that’s who I am, I think, at heart.
[00:10:01] Sharon: And as you said, Tanja, I have had multiple careers in the past. So, have been a doctor, which is probably where my interest in neuroscience, psychology, and research comes from. I have also having done a business degree, worked for more than a decade as a pharmaceutical executive in a global blue-chip company - also, very research based. And then after coming back to Singapore 10 years ago, well, more than 10 years ago, I decided to then train to become a counsellor, which is what I do now.
[00:10:32] Tanja: Yes. Thank you. Thanks for sharing. And so, now to understand maybe for our listeners is to understand a little bit more about like that career change to go from a doctor, in neuroscience, to pharmaceutical representative, and then into counselling, and then on top of it, into a really niche counselling, which is a fertility related counselling. How did that happen?
[00:11:00] Sharon: So, when I returned to Singapore a few years ago, I could have retired probably, but I didn't want to. I needed to work, I needed connection with people, I needed to learn something new. So, I sat down and I figured out, basically wrote a list of what are the things at work that give me joy, that give me a sense of reward, that give me gratification. So clearly, if you look at my careers, whether it's medicine or pharmaceuticals or counselling, there is a thread that runs through, which is obviously one of my drivers, and that's healthcare. The other one is psychology and neuroscience because I was a neurologist in the past. And the third very important piece is, wanting to help, wanting to make a difference to individuals.
[00:11:56] Sharon So, those are the three very strong things that have never changed values. Perhaps you might call them things that give me joy at work. So, out of that, I think counselling fell out of multiple choices. And also, with counselling comes the option of more freedom, more independence, not having to work within a big corporation, which I didn't want to do anymore. There's also a very large piece about what skills can I bring. What skills can I bring to a new job and what new skills could I learn? Because learning, acquiring knowledge and skills is also another big driver of mine. So, all those things came together, you know, the freedom, the independence, the learning, the love of certain things and the strength of certain values - counselling just ticks all those boxes for me. That’s why I decided to become trained and become a counsellor.
[00:12:41] Tanja: Yes. And why the fertility related counselling?
[00:12:44] Sharon: Well, frankly, personal experience. So, I've had my own, difficult fertility journey in the past. So, I felt, you know, I said I wanted to bring skilled experience, some value to my relationships with counsellors. Well, obviously a certain understanding of their fertility journey. Everyone's experience is different, but at least I brought some personal experience and therefore I hope empathy. And I felt that that would equip me better to support people or couples on fertility journeys.
[00:13:15] Sharon: And also, the very important, I think, for me to ask myself, what makes me different, right? As a counsellor, what makes me different to a counsellor who specializes just in stress or in adolescence or, you know. I think it's important to know that, yes, I love counselling as a whole, but there are certain parts of it that really, I feel I would love to help. And where I really felt I brought the right skills and experience. You know, someone said that if you have the skill set and the love and there's a need, that's where your vocation is. And clearly, I think in Singapore, there is a huge need for support of people and couples with challenging fertility journeys.
[00:13:58] Tanja: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, we often got the feedback that, some clients that had seen counsellors before that were not trained in fertility, they didn't speak the language, so to say, so they had to explain all over again what an IVF is, what a hormone stimulation is. And I think that truly sets us apart, right? Because we know what we are talking about. And I'm sure that your clients really appreciate it when you brought that empathy to the table as well when you first started into this career where you could really also sense and feel like where they were at on their fertility journey.
[00:14:40] Sharon: It’s very hard sometimes for us to say what we're feeling and to say what we're thinking. So, I think where a fertility coach or counsellor can be really helpful, is to help clients articulate some of these things, right? I can sit there and go, what is it you feel? Is it this? Is it that? And then they'll be able to tell me, yes, it's that or no, it's not. And then once it's kind of out in the open, it's a lot easier. Absolutely straight to the heart of the issue.
[00:15:09] Tanja: Yes. And how can you bring that compassion to them when you see couples that are really dealing with such complex emotions and they really struggle? How you ensure to bring that compassion to them?
[00:15:23] Sharon: Well, so number one, I hope that when clients come to us, you know, based on our website or through word of mouth, I hope that they would know that they're coming to a group of counsellors who's very ethical and knowledgeable, some of us have had that experience. And so, that is one hurdle removed. But when someone comes with pain, or anxiety, what they really need is a safe environment. We all have to find ways to create that safe environment.
[00:15:53] Sharon: What I try and do very much is you know, in our professional speak, we listen, we try and understand, we ask questions, we stay curious. But I think that what's very important is to validate their experience, meaning whatever you're experiencing, it's okay. And sometimes, you know, you could even go further and say, well, whatever it is that you're feeling, no wonder you feel that way. So, I think it's very important for clients to hear that from someone else. Because many times they're questioning themselves or feeling guilty or inadequate in some way.
[00:16:23] Sharon: So, I think it's very important for us to help them set a healthier perspective. And that helps to create some trust and some degree of comfort and a large degree of yes, I can tell this person almost anything, and I'm not going to be judged. I can just confide in them, hear what they have to say, maybe get a different perspective. So, the non-judgment and the validation, I think, are very, very important in the early phases of a counsellor-client relationship.
[00:16:52] Sharon: The other part which I think is important, and maybe that touches on you know, our tendency to be judgmental and having to make sure we're not being judgmental, is that I try very hard to never assume, or expect what the degree of emotion is related to the trigger, right? So, everybody has their own experience. Someone who loses a pet cat, feel as much pain as losing a parent, but it's not up to me to decide how much or how little they should be feeling. So, we take, I take people as they come, and I try and understand where that strength, what that emotion is and what's behind that strength of emotion. So, I think all those things together create a more compassionate, listening, nonjudgmental, safer phase.
[00:17:40] Sharon: Tanja: Yes, absolutely. And I think it kind of like also helps that we are independent counsellors, right? We are not attached to a clinic. So, which means that there is also no bias because we do not operate with a single clinic, but rather with, in partnership with several clinics and are independent, basically. In your experience since joining the team, what has been your experience? I mean, you joined our team, you joined me. It wasn't a team back then. It was me alone in 2015. And when you came on board and you look at like where we are now, what has been your experience also with your clients, with the team since then?
[00:18:24] Sharon: Oh, I think it's been wonderful. I mean, it's, been one of growth, obviously, you know. We started with the two of us, well, you and then me, and then now I think 10.
[00:18:33] Tanja: Yes, 10.
[00:18:35] Sharon: So it's been a very positive growth and, I think that word growth is very important because, we've become more experienced. Become more networked into Singapore and actually now beyond in the fertility area, whether it's with doctors or nurses or other counsellors, support groups, you know. I think, developing a very positive reputation in the area. And every person who joins the team brings something a little bit different. So, you know, we're at a great critical mass now. I think, where we're learning from each other and teaching each other and each of us individually and as a team are growing because of it.
[00:19:13] Sharon: What's so nice though is that I think we all share the original mission you had Tanja, when you first kind of took yourself into this field, which is to support people on fertility journeys and then branching out into women's health as well. I think we all share that mission very purely. So, that's one of the things that makes us as a team very different and has given me a lot of satisfaction in working with this team. I think we've managed to take care of our reputation, our integrity, our ethics, our education. All those things are so important for me personally and what I'm looking for in a work culture, but also so important for our clients.
[00:19:56] Tanja: Yes, absolutely. Yes. The diversity is amazing in our team. I truly appreciate that. And I feel so, so honored to work with such an inspiring team because each of us really brings like a diverse background to the table and there is so much we can learn from each other. And I think as an avid learner myself, I truly love that and appreciate that as well. Yeah.
[00:20:22] Tanja: We often see our clients that are really struggling with emotional and mental challenges. And, first of all, I'm wondering if you have seen one or the other coming up more? Have you seen more clients with mental challenges or with emotional challenges? Can you find or spot the difference between men and women even? Or what has been your experience and how do you support them?
[00:20:50] Sharon: So, the difference between men and women is an interesting one. I think most normal people, if I can use the word normal, feel emotion, right? We all feel emotion, we all feel pain, we all feel joy, but we all express those emotions differently between individuals and to some extent, you know, without stereotyping too much between sexes as well. So, sometimes it does require a slightly different kind of rapport building, I think, for men to open up and share, what's worrying them, what worries them is sometimes a little bit different from what's worrying the women.
[00:21:25] Sharon: So again, you know, back to the drawing board of taking each person as they come, and asking questions and being curious and trying to figure out why is this person here? Why are they seeking help? What are they bringing? And is there anything I can help with? So again, everyone is different, I would say.
[00:21:45] Sharon: Cognitive versus emotional challenges, again, usually in most people, cognition, thoughts, and emotions are so tightly linked together that most people can't separate the two, but I would say that some people are very cognitively driven, and these are the people who are very worrying, self-critical, catastrophic thoughts all the time.
[00:22:09] Sharon: Other people who are more emotionally driven may not be aware of those thoughts, but they just feel uncomfortable, or in pain, or sad, or anxious all the time. They can't really say why. They may feel it in their bodies. It may make them feel unhealthy. But because I'm a practitioner who believes that the two are interconnected, I will explore both of those as well as what kind of behaviours, what kind of lifestyle these thoughts or feelings are leading to.
Tanja: Yes. And because of the complexity of these emotions, I think it creates also some confusion in our clients because they might actually grieve without knowing that they are grieving. And, having a counsellor who can help them to really unpack what's going on, they can better realize what is truly actually going on within them, right? Yeah, you're right.
[00:23:04] Sharon: I would come and say, oh, I want to process my experience or process that grief. And I'm sitting there and I sometimes think, I wonder what this person means by processing that. What is the expectation? If I process this, what's going to happen the other side. But I think it's exactly what you're saying, Tanja, which is we are trained, we are equipped, we're interested to help people. I think you said unpack it. I used to myself as chunking it down, putting it into more manageable pieces and then kind of saying, okay, which of these are significant? Which of these are relevant, you know, which are just along for the ride, and which are really the things that are causing you to feel all this difficult emotion at the moment.
[00:23:53] Sharon: And I think generally speaking, I think we would agree, once we can help people to chunk things down, simplify things, it just becomes that little bit more manageable. And then suddenly there might be a little light at the end of the tunnel, or a little sense of, wait, can do this, I can do this. And that's what we're looking for, isn't it? That first sign of courage, that first sign of self-belief, and we build on that.
[00:24:18] Tanja: Yes, exactly. And how would you be able to help a couple where you can see that they are so not aligned yet they are both trying to actually get pregnant and have a baby, but you can truly see that they are not aligned with each other. Is there anything that you feel can help them or has been working in the past?
[00:24:42] Sharon: Well, that's difficult because again, every relationship is different. I usually start by exploring whether each partner is actually saying what they need to say. And whether the other partner is hearing what's being meant. Usually that opens up the conversation in general. Whether there's kind of more mutual understanding of where the other person is coming from or why they think this or why they feel that.
[00:25:11] Tanja: Yes, yes. Can we just repeat that? Because I think that's so powerful. That's so powerful, Sharon what you just said. So, the first thing is that you make them, first of all, hear what is being meant and then the second one is that they are…
[00:25:29] Sharon: Well, I encourage people to learn how to actually say what they mean.
[00:25:33] Tanja: Exactly. And say what they mean. Exactly. That's so, so powerful. In a way that's not
[00:25:37] Sharon: In a way that's not angry or critical.
[00:25:40] Tanja: Absolutely. Because I often actually, you know, I find this now so, so empowering what you just said, because I only have actually couples who can be angry at each other.
[00:25:52] Sharon: I know. They're talking over each other.
[00:25:56] Tanja: Absolutely. Absolutely. And what I can see in the expression of their face is actually not anger, it's deep sadness.
[00:26:04] Sharon: Correct.
[00:26:05] Tanja: So sometimes, you know, you can see actually that anger is just like what's coming out, but what it's sitting deep inside them is actually this incredible deep sadness about this experience of not being pregnant or sensing a loss of not belonging or not having that family yet, right?
[00:26:25] Sharon: Yeah. So, I think, you know, if couples better understood what the other person was actually trying to say or meaning to say. That takes the temperature down a little bit. And I do think as a therapist, we do sometimes play referee as well, you know. Sometimes there's a tendency for these emotions to come out in less healthy ways where, you know, one person might be trying to criticize the other person or accuse them of things.
[00:26:53] Sharon: And we do have to set some rules during the session, right? Still tend to listen or really listen and look for the meaning, the hidden meaning. It's not easy to do. It sounds so simple, but it's really helping a couple to have a really authentic dialogue between the two of them and learning communication skills basically of listening for the hidden meaning and responding in the right way.
[00:27:20] Tanja: Yes, yes. Which is one of the things that I repeat over and over. Communication is absolutely key, especially when being on a fertility journey, but also in life. It's a life skill to have. Can you share maybe a little bit about the approach? I know most of us are trying to really support our clients in a positive way to stay at least minimum neutral, if possible, or upbeat for what's coming. But sometimes we are also in this dilemma because we don't want to raise too much their expectation. Because we don't have that crystal ball that we can guarantee or promise a baby at the end of this fertility journey, right? But we are trying to give them some tools so that they feel equipped with what's coming. Can I ask you - how do you manage the uncertainty of an IVF or even if an IVF has experienced a failure before? How can you then support your clients to remain in touch and positive?
[00:28:29] Sharon: Yeah. So, I think it requires some courage as a therapist not to overthink this. You know, it would not be authentic for either of us to say, yes, if you've seen me, or yes, if you do this, we can guarantee you'll have a baby. So, I think we have to be realistic. And I'd say I guess it's about managing expectations. And it's important I think, for me to acknowledge that for some people, the journey can be tough and there can be multiple disappointments. So, therefore, you know, again, from our therapy world, it's really two things. One is about resilience for the entire length with the journey. The second thing is learning skills about how to stay present one step at a time rather than catastrophizing forward.
[00:29:18] Sharon: And these sometimes require several sessions, right, to kind of explain, what do you mean by this Sharon? Can you do this? I can't do that. And I go, well, yes, you can. It's really about being patient with oneself, understanding that whatever the reasons for your difficult paternity journey is almost always not your fault and to expect that there might be multiple disappointments on the journey. And part of resilience is also self-esteem.
[00:29:46] Sharon: I'm reminded by that famous poem Invictus by William Henley that kept Nelson Mandela going while he was on Robben Island. And the last line of the poem is, “I am the master of my fate.” And I take that in this context to mean, “Whatever things are happening to me, good or bad, I choose what my mindset's going to be. And to me, that's a lot of what I'm trying to work with clients to build that sense of autonomy. No matter what happens, I am the master of how I respond to that, how I react to that, what decisions I make next, whether good or bad things happen. Because life is hard. Life is changing, you know.
[00:30:33] Tanja: Absolutely, absolutely. And thinking of, you know, that journey and experiencing maybe some failures in between, is there a good or bad time to see someone? Would you say there is like a best time to come and see one client?
[00:30:52] Sharon: Well, I think clients usually know, but I implore anyone who's thinking of seeing someone like us, a fertility coach or counsellor, not to wait too long. I think there's a lot of stigma around therapy and counselling and what that means. I think people don't really know what we offer, what we do. But I would say that seeing someone like me or seeing someone like you, gives you a neutral person to support you, gives you an informed person who can help you to make your next decisions, to help you manage your anxieties, to help you build resilience, and to remind you that it is in your power to make all these decisions along every step of the journey.
[00:31:37] Sharon: Seeing someone like us also helps people to chunk down their feelings when they're feeling overwhelmed and make better decisions. You know, just to have more confidence, a little bit more self-esteem. And also, to process, you know, I want to use the word to process what the past has meant. And how much of it are you going to take forward? You know, is there a new direction that needs to be taken? There's some very important decisions that need to make along some people's fertility journeys, and we really, really, really don't want you to feel that you have to make these decisions on your own. And sometimes just seeing one of us just once, just one session, can make all the difference.
[00:32:14] Tanja: In that relation, is there like a particular story that you can share, that you feel like, that story remained with you because it touched you in a certain way, or it just reminded you, inspired you?
[00:32:28] Sharon: Gosh, so many Tanja. I spent a lot of my time doing Donor IVF counselling now as you know, for couples who are thinking about IVF with donor sperm or donor eggs. So, I'm speaking generally about these couples now. They tend to consider donor counselling when trying to conceive with their own gametes on eggs and sperm that hasn't worked out, but they still really want to have a family. And some of them embrace the idea of Donor IVF gladly. Others feel that they're somehow pushed into it, that there's no other option.
[00:33:03] Sharon: And it is a big step in the dark, right, especially in Asia where we have very strong feelings and cultures around genetics and bloodlines and inheritance and all the rest of it. So, for a lot of these couples, it can be a very stigmatizing thing to consider raising a donor conceived child. And there are fears about whether, you know, this child would really be mine, you know, would this child really think of me as the parent in the future?
[00:32:31] Sharon: So anyway, they come and have donor counselling with us. And usually I find that, by the end of the session, what's really gratifying for me is that for the vast majority of these couples, they realize that being a parent is just being a parent, and it really doesn't matter where that child comes from. You have many obligations and rights and responsibilities of being a parent. So, it's this idea that someone like us or someone like me is able to just normalize this idea of a donor family makes it a lot less scary, you know. And also, gives them confidence that no matter what, they're going to try to be great parents. What they've been through might make them even greater parents than someone has been through the same challenges.
[00:34:20] Sharon: But what's most gratifying and inspirational for me is that soon after these couples have delivered their donor conceived child or even a year or two later, sometimes they still send me photos and they give me updates and I believe the joy and the acceptance and just the sheer normality of these families after all the fears and the blackness of the time before about raising a donor child. These families are just so normal. They just have absolutely no regrets. And I think that's so inspirational for me.
[00:34:54] Tanja: Yes, exactly. Exactly. And how wonderful to witness that when such a family or such a couple actually then creates their own family with their donor conceived children, right? It's amazing. And it's so normal. Exactly.
[00:35:06] Sharon: Despite all those years, I’ve witnessed beforehand.
[00:35:14] Tanja: Yes, absolutely. That is truly inspiring. I was wondering, Sharon, with all what you hear, you know, in your sessions, and sometimes it can be quite heavy. I mean, I have experienced that as well. Sometimes it can be super intense because they start quarreling with each other in front of us. But also, sometimes the emotions or their experiences that they are sharing can be quite heavy and taxing. I was wondering, is there like a specific self-care tool that you are using to really feel you can balance yourself or ground yourself so that you can offer the presence back into your family when you stop working for the day and don't carry these things home?
[00:35:56] Sharon: Yeah. So, boundaries - physical boundaries is important. I try not to take things out of session, you know. If I have a very, very heavy session, I might just sit there for a while and breathe and have a coffee and take a few deep breaths before I get in the car and go home. Sometimes when I get home, I may prefer not to talk to anyone in my family, just have a shower first, and the physical act of showering makes me feel like I'm washing that day away, and therefore resetting my brain for my home life. Those kind of boundaries is important for us to do this kind of self-care because we are ethically obliged and we want to bring our best selves into each session and be 100%.
[00:36:39] Sharon: So, actually I apply the same advice to myself as I give my clients because life can be hard and you can't solve all your own problems, nor can I solve everybody's problems. I can't, guarantee that your fertility journey will end up the way you hoped. I can't promise my children that life is all going to be of sweet-smelling roses, you know. So, all I can do is, remember that what I'm trying to do with my clients is to help them build resilience and autonomy and be the master of their fate, whatever their fate is. And it's not that I'm absolving myself of responsibility, and neither does it mean that I don't care about what they're going through. But I think it's very important to keep a balanced perspective.
[00:37:31] Sharon: We are not saviors. We can't solve all the problems in the world. The nature of our work means that we work with individuals and sometimes couples, like one on one. We take people as they come. We see what strengths they have and what strengths they need to acquire, skills they need to acquire in order to be more resilient and be more autonomous and to help them have a more balanced perspective on their situation. We might feel very, very sad about someone who's lost loved one or had a miscarriage, for example, but we can accept that loss, but not focus on it. You know, obviously be with someone as they're experiencing that loss, but ultimately, it's about helping them pick up, make sense of it. Be as resilient as possible and decide what's next when they're ready.
[00:38:22] Tanja: Yes, exactly. And what would be your best advice for a couple that is considering to take either another start into their fertility journey because they have been trying already last year or the year before, or they are diving first time into the year and now saying this is the year that it's going to happen. We are rather new into the 2025 year now and after Chinese New Year, maybe one or the other couple has now decided that they want to try it in the year of the snake now. Is there any best advice from your side for these couples that are considering trying and even maybe considering to reach out for counselling?
[00:39:09] Sharon: Yeah, I would say come and see one of us in addition to your doctor, and your friends. I would say get the right information before you start and as you are starting, you know. Don't believe all the myths and things you read on the internet all the time. Come and get a balance view from us as well as from your doctor about what you need to do when and what to expect.
Just start that journey in good shape. It can mean mentally or emotionally. It can also mean physically - before you start an IVF cycle, are both of you optimized your health, for example.
[00:39:48] Sharon: So, there are many things a couple can feel as they're thinking about starting – mentally, emotionally, and physically. Is the relationship in good shape because for most couples, it is a stressful journey. So, you know, let's make sure you're both on the same page. And think we're very well equipped to do that. So, if you're thinking about having one or two sessions of fertility counselling, I would highly recommend it.
[00:40:14] Tanja: Yes. The sooner the better, because I think there is so much that you can share with your experience and background that all of us actually have really that knowledge and that experience that we can share with clients at the beginning of their journey even to help them to build that resilience, like what you said.
[00:40:34] Sharon: Yeah, I would absolutely say, it's not a luxury, you know. Don't worry about the stigma of seeing a counsellor. It's not necessarily a luxury, but if you can afford it, I would absolutely say come and see one of us for at least one session. It’s a big deal. If you’re happy to do IVF, it's quite a big deal. It's a big step and it doesn't cost that much to come and see one of us for a session just to make sure that you're both on the same page, that you're approaching and starting right.
[00:41:03] Tanja: Yeah. And you were just talking about mentioning the IVF process. Is there any number of sessions that you would say has worked extremely well from your perspective?
[00:41:14] Sharon: So, I love having a session first just before they start IVF. Or actually, for a couple who've never done IVF before, you know, on the start of their journey, I would love to see them two or three months before. I think that gives them time to get their mind, body, and spirit in the right place. For couples who put this might be the second or third IVF journey of some experience, but maybe some disappointments in their previous experience, it would be good to see them also before they start whenever they can.
[00:41:43] Sharon: I have found it incredibly helpful for women to have a session with us before an embryo transfer because that is where the rubber hits the road. And it can be a highly stressful time for women. And clearly, we would want to be around when they get their blood test result after embryo the transfer.
[00:42:04] Tanja: Yes, absolutely agree. I in fact have now a client who is doing exactly this. She was planning for her IVF already like five months ago and she reached out to me to schedule for sessions and we are now really preparing very well for these sessions, which is really amazing because I can truly see a very positive shift in the way how she looks at it and the way how she's preparing for it and this is so inspiring to see that. Also, them as a couple, on how they are actually really strengthening their relationship because very often I feel a lot of therapists or specialists are actually always focusing on the woman because it's the woman who goes through all these procedures and they leave out the man quite a bit for it. And I always focus actually on both of them to really bring them together as a power couple.
[00:43:02] Tanja: Well, thank you so, so much, Sharon. This was so inspiring. I was wondering, the last question, if you would have an entire day to yourself, how would you spend it?
[00:43:17] Sharon: Oh, I would get on the ferry and go to sit on a beach in Bintang, in a five-star resort. That's what I would do and have a massage as well while I was at it.
[00:43:31] Tanja: Yeah. I think I would join you. Yeah. That sounds lovely. Yes. I hope you can actually do that.
[00:43:38] Sharon: Well, I might be planning it and I might not be telling my children about it.
[00:43:43] Tanja: Yeah. Fantastic. Exactly. Well, beautiful. Well, thank you so, so much again, Sharon, for sharing your experiences and I feel so, so grateful for having you in the team and it couldn't have been a greater joy actually, the way how we collaborated over all these years and looking forward to many more.
[00:44:06] Sharon: Yeah. Good. I hope so. Thank you so much, Tanja.
[00:44:11] Tanja: Thank you. You, too. Bye!
[00:44:14] Tanja: Wow! Wasn't that just so inspiring? I'm always blown away when I have these exchanges with my teammates. I'm learning each time so much more from them actually by having these conversations because we always discover new things about each other.
So, I truly, truly appreciate that Sharon was part of the show today and thank you again for making the time and being part of this, Sharon. Truly appreciate.
[00:44:44] Tanja: So, for all the listeners there, I hope there was something in for you to take away from it. And if you feel that there is a friend out there or a sibling, or maybe it's even your daughter that you feel this could be helpful to them to listen into it, please share. Share our podcast with anyone that you feel could be profiting or benefiting from this show or from this conversation we just had today. I am truly looking forward to my next episodes which will be actually talking about infertility and IVF processes.
So, please stay tuned and keep in touch and continue to share. Thank you so much and have a wonderful day ahead.
